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1 Transcript of oral history interview conducted with Lawrence Hyde on February 18, 2009 for The American University in Cairo University Archives [00:00:00] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: This is an oral history interview for the American University in Cairo's University Archives. The interviewer is Stephen Urgola and the interviewee is Mr. Lawrence Hyde. We are in the Karnak office in Garden City. And the date is February 18, 2009. Could you please give your full name and date and place of birth? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: OK. My full name is Lawrence H. Hyde. Date of birth was July 10, 1924, which is 85 years ago. So, I came to Egypt as an officer of the Jeep cooperation in America because we wanted to sell American Jeeps to replace the Russian four-wheel drive vehicles that were in the Egyptian army in 1974, when President Sadat switched his alliance, which had been with Russia, to an alliance relying on the United States. [00:01:25] It was obvious that we wanted to put American vehicles into the army, and I worked from 1974 to 1980 selling those jeeps and, at the request of the Egyptian government, building a factory to assemble them in Egypt, which factory out near the airport is still operating, building jeeps and also assembling Peugeot vehicles. In working with the Egyptian government and the Egyptian Army, I needed the help with the Arabic language. [00:02:16] So, a very outstanding man, who was on the Board of Trustees of the American University, Bayly Winder, who was the leading Arabic-language expert in the academia of the United States. He was — had been with Princeton and was then with the New York University. He said, "You should go to AUC to hire professors who are bilingual, who can help you in your discussions with the government." Which I did, and got to know several professors on the staff of AUC at that time. [00:03:09] After some six years of working with them I had got to know something about the University, and it was suggested that I might like to become a trustee. I said I would be very interested to working with them and Bayly — Professor Winder took me to meet the then Chairman of the Board of Trustees in New York and he agreed that I should become a trustee, which happened in 1980. So that's what? Twenty-nine years ago now. And, the question is: What did I find when I got here? 2 [00:04:03] I found some amazing things. First of all 77 percent of the number of students at AUC, which were small then, I can't remember whether it was 2,000 or 3,000, but it was a low number, and 77 percent of them were girls. And then when I talked to some of the students, whom I like to talk to: "What are you concentrating in, what are you specializing in?" And overwhelmingly they were in mass communications. And of course my obvious question was, what is mass communications? I had gone to Harvard University in America and graduated from there, later from the Harvard Business School, but I had never heard of mass communications. [00:05:08] It's hard to view the complete answer that I received from them because I discovered that most of them were here to find a husband and not necessarily to get a higher level university education. And that was a challenge then for the trustees. And, uh, the uh-- and then a big change took place in the administration of the University. First, we had a new Chairman of the Board, uh, and now I'm going to find that my memory is a little slipped, and you will have his name. Uh, oh, I can't come up with it right now. [00:06:06] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Charles Hedlund? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Charles Hedlund. Very good, thank you. You helped me with that. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And he's the one you met with to join the Board? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: He is the— [00:06:14] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: No. I was put on the Board by his predecessor, uh, oh God, what was his-- he was a New York banker and not a very active chairman of the board [Landon K. Thorne]. Hedlund became a very active chairman and started to recruit a bunch of new trustees, many of whom are still around here such as Paul Hannon, who was actually on the Board when I joined and, during the '80s, we got mostly in America. It didn't become an international board until the '90s, but in the '80s we got some very good Americans on the Board who were businessmen and lawyers and academics from America, who took a very active role in revitalizing and turning the curriculum around. At the same time, uh, we had a new president, and once again, you help me with his name? 3 [00:07:31] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: So, President Pedersen? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Pedersen. Exactly. Yes, who showed great energy and courage in raising the number, the price of tuition, and going out and recruiting additional students. [00:07:55] He soon realized, as did the trustees, that in order to attract more young men or boys here we had to have a different curriculum, and with Pedersen's guiding and the support of the trustees we added many more courses in engineering in particular — made it a strong engineering department — and added many more courses in finance and business, attracting once again many additional boys. And they also appointed many new professors here who were much more uh, stringent, hard-nosed, about making sure that the young men and the young women, who were still coming of course, had to do good work to get good grades. [00:09:04] It wasn't just waiting to find the husbands. And so during the 1980s was the second birth, if I could use the word, of the American University. New courses were added, the new professors were added, and there was a great reaching out to attract more students. And, the, certainly during — you'd have the numbers at your disposal — but certainly during the '80s, the number of students here increased dramatically. And the ratio, it took a long time but it came down to where, [00:09:54] By the end of the '80s, it was close to the 50/50 divide between young men and young women that we enjoy now. Uh, and Pedersen rounded, much to the dismay, if you will, of some of the old hands here who thought he was insisting on too many changes, intended to revitalize the curriculum and the standing of the University as a university, meaning as an academic higher education institution. And he was so successful at it that during the '80s we actually ran the University at a profit, which was unheard of before that, because we had been, prior to that time, dependent heavily on subsidies from the U.S. government. [00:11:04] Which he felt that eventually we would have to wean, wean ourselves away from that, because you could not expect the U.S. government to keep supporting us forever. So that was the dramatic changes that occurred during the 1980s. And, as I said, provided the foundation for what we have now. Now, we've gone far beyond the changes that were instituted in the '80s, up to the real academic, strongly academic, institution, that we have now. But the basis for that was laid during the 1980s. [00:11:55] It was an exciting time to be a trustee and we were expect-- all of us were expected to contribute, not just in our specialty. In my case, I was made Chairman of the Finance Committee, and which had been rather weak-- weakly led up until that time. But then we had a great help from a man who is still with us, Andrew Snaith, who turned out to be an 4 extraordinarily good financial man and set up the whole scheme, if you will, of reports on which we now rely to make sure that we could do a good budgeting job every year and could work hard to achieve the budgets. [00:12:58] That, uh, uh— and then since then, I stayed on in the investment, Head of the Investment Committee, divided it between the Finance Committee, as we now know it. It looks at the overall income and outgo of the expenses, outgo and expenses, income in tuition and gifts and other monies that we were able to raise. I stayed on as the Head of the Finance Committee and that divided off a separate investment committee that I was deeply involved in. [00:13:49] And Paul Corddry, who is still a trustee, who was very instrumental in setting up, so that even within my own area, going on a bit to the '90s, we found that we had been given a modest amount due to a few million dollars from the U.S. government, with the suggestion that we invest that in companies here in Egypt and see if we could make some money from that score to supplement the income we had from tuition, which is vital because tuition can never, in a well-run, growing university, could never cover the cost of the university in providing the education, the teaching and all the support that the students require. [00:14:54] To this day, and that's what I'm working on here now in Karnak, those investments have grown in size, they were up at one point over 65 million dollars. We are now spending those income from those investments on building the new campus. But that's what they're focused on now. But over the last, what is it, 18 years, they have contributed well over 60 million dollars in profits to help build a new university. So that, uh— and during that— so that was the financial structure was put in place in the '80s as a basis, and then it flourished in the '90s because we then set about trying to raise more income and more contributions for the endowment of the University. [00:16:07] Which grew during the '90s — not during the '80s, but during the '90s — to be the multihundred-million dollar endowment we now enjoy. What else can I cite? Well, in parallel with this strengthening of the internal controls on our income and expenses, and in parallel with investing the money in what we call the Karnak fund, which was the private equity investment fund that's still going on today, uh, investing that in good Egyptian companies to make a profit, why— [00:16:55] In parallel with those good financial matters was the strengthening of the faculty and the broadening, great broadening, of offerings to the students in science and engineering and in business and in economics as well as in the liberal arts, which made many, many more offerings to the students, far beyond mass communications, and helped build the strong organization it is today. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And can you tell me about the president in the 1990s, Donald McDonald? 5 Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? [00:17:52] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Can you tell me about the president of AUC in the 1990s, President Donald McDonald? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: His relationship with the Board? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: It, uh, never fully developed. He did, uh, uh, didn't really-- he was not a good communicator, which is a tragedy, but it's a fact. And he didn't really interface with the Board except in the formal meetings. The Board went on in spite of that and grew in strength and actually took over a leading role from the President, which was not true when Pederson was president, and is not, by far, is not true today, while Arnold, is a very — an outstanding man, is doing the leadership here. So that, he was, what I would call an interim — he, McDonald was an interim president. [00:18:56] And after a few years it was really decided that he should retire and we'd seek someone else. Then for a period, there was, um, uh, some groping about, and we had John Gerhart, who was a charismatic leader, a great leader, who was deeply interested in the faculty and a good communicator with — the Board. He was, uh, uh — and he was a man who had his own ideas, he wasn't just, really, waiting for the Board or the faculty to come up with the meetings. Now that was in the late '70s and it was about that time that-- [00:19:58] I remember at one meeting we were congratulating ourselves and then we had a couple hundred million dollars in the endowment, and I raised the question: "What are we saving it for? What are we gonna do with it?" Well, they were, we were so taken up with happiness over the size of it we hadn't slowed down to ask that question. But quickly the Board came together, established a Century Committee — "Where are we going? What are we trying to do? What are we trying to build here?" And that evolved into the planning for the new campus, which we now have. Unfortunately John Gerhart, well, in my opinion, still a young man, was stricken with cancer. [00:20:53] And while we had Tim Sullivan as the interim — he was the provost, and as the — and a good strong provost, where some of his predecessors had been lamentably weak, why, uh —, we then had to go out and seek a new president and there was some delay in finding that. And then we had another interim president in Mr., Professor Vandiver from Texas A&M, a good man and, once again a challenging leader, who was not altogether comfortable with being president, but still he was a dynamic force at pushing the organization and the abilities of the University in academic affairs to go forward. 6 [00:21:59] And then, after his retirement, why— went out and finally came up with President Arnold who now is presiding over a good university as he tries to make it even better, so it can be called a world-class university. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Can you say couple of words about President Arnold's leadership style? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, alright. Oh yes I can. His leadership style is deep, repeat, deep involvement in every aspect of the University. In other words, when he sits in on this Karnak Fund, this private equity fund, he is on the board of — that we have just for that fund, he asks probing questions of me. I'm running it with Marianne here and with Andrew Snaith, my two very valuable, crucial assistants, we couldn't have done it without them. [00:23:05] But no, when President Arnold is on that board he has questions and pushes and wonders why we can't do even better, and I think that typifies the style he has when he sits down with the different departments of the different academic leaders here in looking for more leadership and more challenging objectives for the future. And certainly, he has gone out, he has recruited Dr. Lisa Anderson as the provost now and, boy, she certainly hit the track running with all the suggestions she's come up with in her first year here. [00:24:02] But that typifies President Arnold's approach. He looks for better people, stronger people, people who will not be satisfied with the status quo, even if it is a good status. He wants something better for the future. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: You mentioned that the Board became more international over the years. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes, well, that was one of the things that started in the '90s and has really progressed since the year 2000: get more Egyptians on the Board, which we have done and that's evident. I mean we started to get them even in the '90s, but the strong ones that we have now like Moataz Al Alfi and others are people that came on essentially in the year 2000 and thereafter, and uh—. [00:25:05] Now we have Saudis on there, and good ones, including some very interesting females from Saudi too. And now we have Africans, and other people interested in the Middle East, qualified to have an interest because of their work or academic experience, and who are contributing so that it's a real international Board, now, it's alright. The plurality may be Americans but they're coming from more and more different countries, particularly in the Middle East. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And can you describe some of the chairmen that you've worked with on the Board: Charles Hedlund, Paul Hannon— 7 [00:26:00] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, well, well once again Hedlun— Hedlund was an experienced oil man from the Middle East and had a good guiding hand. He would be in contrast to Arnold who believes in digging in and, uh, uh, trying to find every way he can to make the place stronger. But he was still a good guiding hand. And Paul Hannon was chairman for a long time and displayed, uh, unusual competence in judging difficult situations or situations which needed some remedial action. He was very critical of how we were spending our big monies on scholarships, because we weren't putting them where they were needed, with the people who could not afford to go here. [00:27:03] And he was one of the ones that took the lead in embracing scholarships, for, well it ended up in the LEAD program, which I'm sure you're familiar with, but many other programs, where just focused on Egyptian students, the ones who were good but didn't have the money or the means to come here. I think we now have— no scholarship program can ever be perfect, but we have one of the better ones that I am aware of in universities— here and in America. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And Frank Vandiver, you mentioned, and Boyd Hight were other chairmen of the board in your time? [00:27:54] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes. Vandiver was not there— not in that job for a long time so that, uh, it's harder to state. Even though he was good at shaking things up, he didn't know why we hadn't done this before and he would go charging off and get it done. And Boyd Hight continues the type of, and even strengthens, the type of chairmanship that Paul Hannon gave it, in that he looks for people who head the individual committees — Finance, Academic Affairs, Student Affairs — the important committees on the Board and expects these chairmen to come up with the good basic questions, not to get involved in detail, but to come up with good probing questions on how can we do better. A very effective leader as chairman. [00:29:00] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And can you say something about the involvement of the Bartlett family? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, yeah. They were here, of course, father Tom was the president, when, in the '60s. And he tells some great stories about what a small and struggling institution it was then and how they were on the edge of being nationalized or something during the war in Sinai and everything, and then now he has produced a great— well two sons who were very effective members of the Board, and we're delighted to have them. It's not because of their family that they are there, they're there because they're competent people and are contributing to that. So he and his family have been, and continue to be, great contributors to the leadership of the University. 8 [00:30:15] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: W. Kelly Simpson was another — W. Kelly Simpson? Was the Vice Chair, a while ago. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, yeah, he was, of course, a member of a very well-established and wealthy American family who had taken an interest in the Mideast long ago. And he was a good guide in making sure the new members on the Board, like myself when I came on, or other people, had some idea of what the supporters, such as his family's, or his wife's family's supporter, what— uh, what they were hoping to achieve here. [00:31:06] And he was a delight to be with because you could go on walking around the Karnak Temple and he would look at a line of hieroglyphic characters and translate it into English as he read it to you from down the scroll so, a great man, interesting man. Yes. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And you mentioned some other academics on the Board like, uh, Bayly Winder and Lisa Anderson. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, well as I said-- Interviewer Stephen Urgola: There were some others as well? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: There were some other academics on the Board as well? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes, but those are the ones that, uh, Bayly Winder in particular, that had a background on the Middle East, when it was largely an American Board, and we needed someone like that. The other one who was a great guide to us, was, um, oh — the former Ambassador to Egypt. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Frank Wisner? Or Hermann— [00:31:55] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Hermann Eilts! Yes. Because, he and I happened to become personal friends, because when I came here in '74, he had just been appointed the first American ambassador to Egypt after the long gap when there was no diplomatic relations here. And he had a mind that was truly impressive, with his background knowledge of who the important people were in the Middle East and what they were contributing to their individual countries and to the region as a whole. He was one of our strong, strong members on the Board. Ever since the— yes. 9 Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Miner Crary is another. [00:32:57] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, well, Mi— Miner Crary has been here for a long time and he must be our oldest member of the platoon of trustees now, and he was very careful at keeping the records of the Board and made— reminding us of what our fiduciary responsibility was as board members, yes. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And another longtime trustee was Marion Lloyd. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Marion Lloyd. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: She had either ceased to be a trustee or was— ceased to be an active one by the time I arrived, so I do not know her, yeah. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Are there any other Board members you'd like to mention, in terms of their contribution? [00:33:56] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Oh, yeah, there would be so many. [Stephen Urgola laughs] But those are the ones with whom I worked the most closely in, in the [unintelligible], in the course of my time here. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Alright. Is there anything else you would like to add about AUC-- your time on the Board with AUC? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Oh, oh, it's been— I have to be careful with what adjectives I use. I was going to say some of the most entertaining days of my life were coming out here. And I used to come three times a year because of my involvement in the investments of the Foundation, the endowment and my investments in the Karnak Fund, and that gave me a great chance, as I'm enjoying now. [00:34:55] I come out for the week of board meetings and I spend another couple weeks here, obviously working on the activities of the Karnak Fund, but also taking the opportunity to invite professors out to dinner and to get a feeling of what's going on in the different departments there. And I used to visit the BEC department, the British — [laughs] Business, Economics, and Communication, with the chairman there. I was with Chairman O'Connor on this visit, used to be with Professor Mortagy when he was chairman, and that, and that contributed to 10 something that, as you get older you kind of miss the fact that when you were young you were in a university, you were part of it, you knew the professors, you, from a lower level, had an idea what's going on. [00:36:00] But to be here and see how, if I could use the word, the management, of the university is evolving, and you do that by talking to professors, students to some extent, but mai— in my opinion, mainly to professors and teachers. And you learn a lot more. And you get— you're able to formulate your own ideas as to what you should be pushing as the forward thrust of the University. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And if I could just ask if you could say something about the change in the political and economic climate of Egypt from when you first came in the mid '70s— Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Oh yeah well— Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And how that affected AUC. [00:36:51] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, oh no, well it was, when I first came, Egypt was still in what I call the "straight jacket" of the Nasser years, and too many of the people who are now leading industrialists and big contributors to Egypt were in exile because they didn't want to come back because, uh, the government was run on strict make-work rules and old ideas and wasn't welcoming new ones. And I feel that while, a lot of people, including American, who— prominently including Americans, don't understand how much President Mubarak has guided — not implemented, but guided — the opening up of the Egyptian government to modern management methods, and who has put into his cabinet people who really are helping Egypt to make some of the big, big strides it's made. [00:38:09] When I look back to the '70s, before I was a trustee in the '80s, when I hear and realize how tough it was to get simple decisions out of the government, and when I see now all the new industries cropping up that are taking the place of imports and setting the basis for exports, that's because President Mubarak has supported the idea of more competent and independent-minded people who are committed to helping Egypt, uh, committed people who belong on his— in his cabinet. And, it's probably the transformation that has already occurred, from the '70s to today, hasn't been repeated in many sizable countries around the world in such a short period of time. [00:39:13] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And do you have a sense of how that affected the University's progress— the changing economic climates? 11 Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Say that again? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: If you could say something about how you saw these changes in Egypt as a whole affecting AUC's progress, as a university. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, it may— uh, you have to be careful because it made the changes in Egypt, the modernization of the government and of the economic affairs of the country, has just made it kind of a ready-made market for AUC graduates. I mean they were just learning mass communications [unintelligible, garbled sound due to technical problem with recorder]. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: I'm sorry. I was just asking you about how the changes in Egypt's economy, how that affected AUC as an institution. [00:40:06] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, it's both an opportunity which I think is seizing, but also a challenge. In other words, I went, as I said, to Harvard which always educated you in ways that would help you to become a lawyer, or an academic, or a businessman or whatever you wanted to become, but it never forgot that it had you as a student to broaden your horizons and get you interested and contributing to whatever you want. That's our challenge. It's easy to sit back and say, "Oh all the people in Egypt, all the businessmen or others, want to employ AUC graduates." [00:41:03] We have to be careful that we don't become a professional school just turning out business graduates, but that while the students are here we broaden their mind and interest and give them a liberal education. That's a challenge to universities throughout the world, it's too easy to make them business schools. That's not what we're trying to do. And I think we've got a ways to go, but I think that this, uh, modernization, if I can say it, of Egypt, is given us the prospect that students will more and more be able to enjoy and profit from the years at AUC far beyond whatever professional specialty they want to end up in. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Is there anything else you would like to add, anything we haven't covered? [00:42:03] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, as I started to say at one time there, it's been entertaining and broadening of my own horizons. I mean I have been able to look under the tent and into an academic institution and really participate in some of the debates as to, are we doing a good job in economics? Are we doing a good job in technology, or wherever? And how can we do better? A challenge, a challenge, a challenge. Which keeps you young, even if you were born 85 years ago. OK? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Thank you so much, I appreciate this. 12 Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: OK, alright. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Thanks. [00:42:44] [End of interview]
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Transcript | 1 Transcript of oral history interview conducted with Lawrence Hyde on February 18, 2009 for The American University in Cairo University Archives [00:00:00] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: This is an oral history interview for the American University in Cairo's University Archives. The interviewer is Stephen Urgola and the interviewee is Mr. Lawrence Hyde. We are in the Karnak office in Garden City. And the date is February 18, 2009. Could you please give your full name and date and place of birth? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: OK. My full name is Lawrence H. Hyde. Date of birth was July 10, 1924, which is 85 years ago. So, I came to Egypt as an officer of the Jeep cooperation in America because we wanted to sell American Jeeps to replace the Russian four-wheel drive vehicles that were in the Egyptian army in 1974, when President Sadat switched his alliance, which had been with Russia, to an alliance relying on the United States. [00:01:25] It was obvious that we wanted to put American vehicles into the army, and I worked from 1974 to 1980 selling those jeeps and, at the request of the Egyptian government, building a factory to assemble them in Egypt, which factory out near the airport is still operating, building jeeps and also assembling Peugeot vehicles. In working with the Egyptian government and the Egyptian Army, I needed the help with the Arabic language. [00:02:16] So, a very outstanding man, who was on the Board of Trustees of the American University, Bayly Winder, who was the leading Arabic-language expert in the academia of the United States. He was — had been with Princeton and was then with the New York University. He said, "You should go to AUC to hire professors who are bilingual, who can help you in your discussions with the government." Which I did, and got to know several professors on the staff of AUC at that time. [00:03:09] After some six years of working with them I had got to know something about the University, and it was suggested that I might like to become a trustee. I said I would be very interested to working with them and Bayly — Professor Winder took me to meet the then Chairman of the Board of Trustees in New York and he agreed that I should become a trustee, which happened in 1980. So that's what? Twenty-nine years ago now. And, the question is: What did I find when I got here? 2 [00:04:03] I found some amazing things. First of all 77 percent of the number of students at AUC, which were small then, I can't remember whether it was 2,000 or 3,000, but it was a low number, and 77 percent of them were girls. And then when I talked to some of the students, whom I like to talk to: "What are you concentrating in, what are you specializing in?" And overwhelmingly they were in mass communications. And of course my obvious question was, what is mass communications? I had gone to Harvard University in America and graduated from there, later from the Harvard Business School, but I had never heard of mass communications. [00:05:08] It's hard to view the complete answer that I received from them because I discovered that most of them were here to find a husband and not necessarily to get a higher level university education. And that was a challenge then for the trustees. And, uh, the uh-- and then a big change took place in the administration of the University. First, we had a new Chairman of the Board, uh, and now I'm going to find that my memory is a little slipped, and you will have his name. Uh, oh, I can't come up with it right now. [00:06:06] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Charles Hedlund? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Charles Hedlund. Very good, thank you. You helped me with that. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And he's the one you met with to join the Board? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: He is the— [00:06:14] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: No. I was put on the Board by his predecessor, uh, oh God, what was his-- he was a New York banker and not a very active chairman of the board [Landon K. Thorne]. Hedlund became a very active chairman and started to recruit a bunch of new trustees, many of whom are still around here such as Paul Hannon, who was actually on the Board when I joined and, during the '80s, we got mostly in America. It didn't become an international board until the '90s, but in the '80s we got some very good Americans on the Board who were businessmen and lawyers and academics from America, who took a very active role in revitalizing and turning the curriculum around. At the same time, uh, we had a new president, and once again, you help me with his name? 3 [00:07:31] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: So, President Pedersen? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Pedersen. Exactly. Yes, who showed great energy and courage in raising the number, the price of tuition, and going out and recruiting additional students. [00:07:55] He soon realized, as did the trustees, that in order to attract more young men or boys here we had to have a different curriculum, and with Pedersen's guiding and the support of the trustees we added many more courses in engineering in particular — made it a strong engineering department — and added many more courses in finance and business, attracting once again many additional boys. And they also appointed many new professors here who were much more uh, stringent, hard-nosed, about making sure that the young men and the young women, who were still coming of course, had to do good work to get good grades. [00:09:04] It wasn't just waiting to find the husbands. And so during the 1980s was the second birth, if I could use the word, of the American University. New courses were added, the new professors were added, and there was a great reaching out to attract more students. And, the, certainly during — you'd have the numbers at your disposal — but certainly during the '80s, the number of students here increased dramatically. And the ratio, it took a long time but it came down to where, [00:09:54] By the end of the '80s, it was close to the 50/50 divide between young men and young women that we enjoy now. Uh, and Pedersen rounded, much to the dismay, if you will, of some of the old hands here who thought he was insisting on too many changes, intended to revitalize the curriculum and the standing of the University as a university, meaning as an academic higher education institution. And he was so successful at it that during the '80s we actually ran the University at a profit, which was unheard of before that, because we had been, prior to that time, dependent heavily on subsidies from the U.S. government. [00:11:04] Which he felt that eventually we would have to wean, wean ourselves away from that, because you could not expect the U.S. government to keep supporting us forever. So that was the dramatic changes that occurred during the 1980s. And, as I said, provided the foundation for what we have now. Now, we've gone far beyond the changes that were instituted in the '80s, up to the real academic, strongly academic, institution, that we have now. But the basis for that was laid during the 1980s. [00:11:55] It was an exciting time to be a trustee and we were expect-- all of us were expected to contribute, not just in our specialty. In my case, I was made Chairman of the Finance Committee, and which had been rather weak-- weakly led up until that time. But then we had a great help from a man who is still with us, Andrew Snaith, who turned out to be an 4 extraordinarily good financial man and set up the whole scheme, if you will, of reports on which we now rely to make sure that we could do a good budgeting job every year and could work hard to achieve the budgets. [00:12:58] That, uh, uh— and then since then, I stayed on in the investment, Head of the Investment Committee, divided it between the Finance Committee, as we now know it. It looks at the overall income and outgo of the expenses, outgo and expenses, income in tuition and gifts and other monies that we were able to raise. I stayed on as the Head of the Finance Committee and that divided off a separate investment committee that I was deeply involved in. [00:13:49] And Paul Corddry, who is still a trustee, who was very instrumental in setting up, so that even within my own area, going on a bit to the '90s, we found that we had been given a modest amount due to a few million dollars from the U.S. government, with the suggestion that we invest that in companies here in Egypt and see if we could make some money from that score to supplement the income we had from tuition, which is vital because tuition can never, in a well-run, growing university, could never cover the cost of the university in providing the education, the teaching and all the support that the students require. [00:14:54] To this day, and that's what I'm working on here now in Karnak, those investments have grown in size, they were up at one point over 65 million dollars. We are now spending those income from those investments on building the new campus. But that's what they're focused on now. But over the last, what is it, 18 years, they have contributed well over 60 million dollars in profits to help build a new university. So that, uh— and during that— so that was the financial structure was put in place in the '80s as a basis, and then it flourished in the '90s because we then set about trying to raise more income and more contributions for the endowment of the University. [00:16:07] Which grew during the '90s — not during the '80s, but during the '90s — to be the multihundred-million dollar endowment we now enjoy. What else can I cite? Well, in parallel with this strengthening of the internal controls on our income and expenses, and in parallel with investing the money in what we call the Karnak fund, which was the private equity investment fund that's still going on today, uh, investing that in good Egyptian companies to make a profit, why— [00:16:55] In parallel with those good financial matters was the strengthening of the faculty and the broadening, great broadening, of offerings to the students in science and engineering and in business and in economics as well as in the liberal arts, which made many, many more offerings to the students, far beyond mass communications, and helped build the strong organization it is today. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And can you tell me about the president in the 1990s, Donald McDonald? 5 Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? [00:17:52] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Can you tell me about the president of AUC in the 1990s, President Donald McDonald? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: His relationship with the Board? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: It, uh, never fully developed. He did, uh, uh, didn't really-- he was not a good communicator, which is a tragedy, but it's a fact. And he didn't really interface with the Board except in the formal meetings. The Board went on in spite of that and grew in strength and actually took over a leading role from the President, which was not true when Pederson was president, and is not, by far, is not true today, while Arnold, is a very — an outstanding man, is doing the leadership here. So that, he was, what I would call an interim — he, McDonald was an interim president. [00:18:56] And after a few years it was really decided that he should retire and we'd seek someone else. Then for a period, there was, um, uh, some groping about, and we had John Gerhart, who was a charismatic leader, a great leader, who was deeply interested in the faculty and a good communicator with — the Board. He was, uh, uh — and he was a man who had his own ideas, he wasn't just, really, waiting for the Board or the faculty to come up with the meetings. Now that was in the late '70s and it was about that time that-- [00:19:58] I remember at one meeting we were congratulating ourselves and then we had a couple hundred million dollars in the endowment, and I raised the question: "What are we saving it for? What are we gonna do with it?" Well, they were, we were so taken up with happiness over the size of it we hadn't slowed down to ask that question. But quickly the Board came together, established a Century Committee — "Where are we going? What are we trying to do? What are we trying to build here?" And that evolved into the planning for the new campus, which we now have. Unfortunately John Gerhart, well, in my opinion, still a young man, was stricken with cancer. [00:20:53] And while we had Tim Sullivan as the interim — he was the provost, and as the — and a good strong provost, where some of his predecessors had been lamentably weak, why, uh —, we then had to go out and seek a new president and there was some delay in finding that. And then we had another interim president in Mr., Professor Vandiver from Texas A&M, a good man and, once again a challenging leader, who was not altogether comfortable with being president, but still he was a dynamic force at pushing the organization and the abilities of the University in academic affairs to go forward. 6 [00:21:59] And then, after his retirement, why— went out and finally came up with President Arnold who now is presiding over a good university as he tries to make it even better, so it can be called a world-class university. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Can you say couple of words about President Arnold's leadership style? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, alright. Oh yes I can. His leadership style is deep, repeat, deep involvement in every aspect of the University. In other words, when he sits in on this Karnak Fund, this private equity fund, he is on the board of — that we have just for that fund, he asks probing questions of me. I'm running it with Marianne here and with Andrew Snaith, my two very valuable, crucial assistants, we couldn't have done it without them. [00:23:05] But no, when President Arnold is on that board he has questions and pushes and wonders why we can't do even better, and I think that typifies the style he has when he sits down with the different departments of the different academic leaders here in looking for more leadership and more challenging objectives for the future. And certainly, he has gone out, he has recruited Dr. Lisa Anderson as the provost now and, boy, she certainly hit the track running with all the suggestions she's come up with in her first year here. [00:24:02] But that typifies President Arnold's approach. He looks for better people, stronger people, people who will not be satisfied with the status quo, even if it is a good status. He wants something better for the future. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: You mentioned that the Board became more international over the years. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes, well, that was one of the things that started in the '90s and has really progressed since the year 2000: get more Egyptians on the Board, which we have done and that's evident. I mean we started to get them even in the '90s, but the strong ones that we have now like Moataz Al Alfi and others are people that came on essentially in the year 2000 and thereafter, and uh—. [00:25:05] Now we have Saudis on there, and good ones, including some very interesting females from Saudi too. And now we have Africans, and other people interested in the Middle East, qualified to have an interest because of their work or academic experience, and who are contributing so that it's a real international Board, now, it's alright. The plurality may be Americans but they're coming from more and more different countries, particularly in the Middle East. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And can you describe some of the chairmen that you've worked with on the Board: Charles Hedlund, Paul Hannon— 7 [00:26:00] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, well, well once again Hedlun— Hedlund was an experienced oil man from the Middle East and had a good guiding hand. He would be in contrast to Arnold who believes in digging in and, uh, uh, trying to find every way he can to make the place stronger. But he was still a good guiding hand. And Paul Hannon was chairman for a long time and displayed, uh, unusual competence in judging difficult situations or situations which needed some remedial action. He was very critical of how we were spending our big monies on scholarships, because we weren't putting them where they were needed, with the people who could not afford to go here. [00:27:03] And he was one of the ones that took the lead in embracing scholarships, for, well it ended up in the LEAD program, which I'm sure you're familiar with, but many other programs, where just focused on Egyptian students, the ones who were good but didn't have the money or the means to come here. I think we now have— no scholarship program can ever be perfect, but we have one of the better ones that I am aware of in universities— here and in America. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And Frank Vandiver, you mentioned, and Boyd Hight were other chairmen of the board in your time? [00:27:54] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes. Vandiver was not there— not in that job for a long time so that, uh, it's harder to state. Even though he was good at shaking things up, he didn't know why we hadn't done this before and he would go charging off and get it done. And Boyd Hight continues the type of, and even strengthens, the type of chairmanship that Paul Hannon gave it, in that he looks for people who head the individual committees — Finance, Academic Affairs, Student Affairs — the important committees on the Board and expects these chairmen to come up with the good basic questions, not to get involved in detail, but to come up with good probing questions on how can we do better. A very effective leader as chairman. [00:29:00] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And can you say something about the involvement of the Bartlett family? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, yeah. They were here, of course, father Tom was the president, when, in the '60s. And he tells some great stories about what a small and struggling institution it was then and how they were on the edge of being nationalized or something during the war in Sinai and everything, and then now he has produced a great— well two sons who were very effective members of the Board, and we're delighted to have them. It's not because of their family that they are there, they're there because they're competent people and are contributing to that. So he and his family have been, and continue to be, great contributors to the leadership of the University. 8 [00:30:15] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: W. Kelly Simpson was another — W. Kelly Simpson? Was the Vice Chair, a while ago. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, yeah, he was, of course, a member of a very well-established and wealthy American family who had taken an interest in the Mideast long ago. And he was a good guide in making sure the new members on the Board, like myself when I came on, or other people, had some idea of what the supporters, such as his family's, or his wife's family's supporter, what— uh, what they were hoping to achieve here. [00:31:06] And he was a delight to be with because you could go on walking around the Karnak Temple and he would look at a line of hieroglyphic characters and translate it into English as he read it to you from down the scroll so, a great man, interesting man. Yes. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And you mentioned some other academics on the Board like, uh, Bayly Winder and Lisa Anderson. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, well as I said-- Interviewer Stephen Urgola: There were some others as well? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: There were some other academics on the Board as well? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yes, but those are the ones that, uh, Bayly Winder in particular, that had a background on the Middle East, when it was largely an American Board, and we needed someone like that. The other one who was a great guide to us, was, um, oh — the former Ambassador to Egypt. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Frank Wisner? Or Hermann— [00:31:55] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Hermann Eilts! Yes. Because, he and I happened to become personal friends, because when I came here in '74, he had just been appointed the first American ambassador to Egypt after the long gap when there was no diplomatic relations here. And he had a mind that was truly impressive, with his background knowledge of who the important people were in the Middle East and what they were contributing to their individual countries and to the region as a whole. He was one of our strong, strong members on the Board. Ever since the— yes. 9 Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Miner Crary is another. [00:32:57] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, well, Mi— Miner Crary has been here for a long time and he must be our oldest member of the platoon of trustees now, and he was very careful at keeping the records of the Board and made— reminding us of what our fiduciary responsibility was as board members, yes. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And another longtime trustee was Marion Lloyd. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Please? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Marion Lloyd. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: She had either ceased to be a trustee or was— ceased to be an active one by the time I arrived, so I do not know her, yeah. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Are there any other Board members you'd like to mention, in terms of their contribution? [00:33:56] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Oh, yeah, there would be so many. [Stephen Urgola laughs] But those are the ones with whom I worked the most closely in, in the [unintelligible], in the course of my time here. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Alright. Is there anything else you would like to add about AUC-- your time on the Board with AUC? Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Oh, oh, it's been— I have to be careful with what adjectives I use. I was going to say some of the most entertaining days of my life were coming out here. And I used to come three times a year because of my involvement in the investments of the Foundation, the endowment and my investments in the Karnak Fund, and that gave me a great chance, as I'm enjoying now. [00:34:55] I come out for the week of board meetings and I spend another couple weeks here, obviously working on the activities of the Karnak Fund, but also taking the opportunity to invite professors out to dinner and to get a feeling of what's going on in the different departments there. And I used to visit the BEC department, the British — [laughs] Business, Economics, and Communication, with the chairman there. I was with Chairman O'Connor on this visit, used to be with Professor Mortagy when he was chairman, and that, and that contributed to 10 something that, as you get older you kind of miss the fact that when you were young you were in a university, you were part of it, you knew the professors, you, from a lower level, had an idea what's going on. [00:36:00] But to be here and see how, if I could use the word, the management, of the university is evolving, and you do that by talking to professors, students to some extent, but mai— in my opinion, mainly to professors and teachers. And you learn a lot more. And you get— you're able to formulate your own ideas as to what you should be pushing as the forward thrust of the University. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And if I could just ask if you could say something about the change in the political and economic climate of Egypt from when you first came in the mid '70s— Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Oh yeah well— Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And how that affected AUC. [00:36:51] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Yeah, oh no, well it was, when I first came, Egypt was still in what I call the "straight jacket" of the Nasser years, and too many of the people who are now leading industrialists and big contributors to Egypt were in exile because they didn't want to come back because, uh, the government was run on strict make-work rules and old ideas and wasn't welcoming new ones. And I feel that while, a lot of people, including American, who— prominently including Americans, don't understand how much President Mubarak has guided — not implemented, but guided — the opening up of the Egyptian government to modern management methods, and who has put into his cabinet people who really are helping Egypt to make some of the big, big strides it's made. [00:38:09] When I look back to the '70s, before I was a trustee in the '80s, when I hear and realize how tough it was to get simple decisions out of the government, and when I see now all the new industries cropping up that are taking the place of imports and setting the basis for exports, that's because President Mubarak has supported the idea of more competent and independent-minded people who are committed to helping Egypt, uh, committed people who belong on his— in his cabinet. And, it's probably the transformation that has already occurred, from the '70s to today, hasn't been repeated in many sizable countries around the world in such a short period of time. [00:39:13] Interviewer Stephen Urgola: And do you have a sense of how that affected the University's progress— the changing economic climates? 11 Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Say that again? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: If you could say something about how you saw these changes in Egypt as a whole affecting AUC's progress, as a university. Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, it may— uh, you have to be careful because it made the changes in Egypt, the modernization of the government and of the economic affairs of the country, has just made it kind of a ready-made market for AUC graduates. I mean they were just learning mass communications [unintelligible, garbled sound due to technical problem with recorder]. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: I'm sorry. I was just asking you about how the changes in Egypt's economy, how that affected AUC as an institution. [00:40:06] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, it's both an opportunity which I think is seizing, but also a challenge. In other words, I went, as I said, to Harvard which always educated you in ways that would help you to become a lawyer, or an academic, or a businessman or whatever you wanted to become, but it never forgot that it had you as a student to broaden your horizons and get you interested and contributing to whatever you want. That's our challenge. It's easy to sit back and say, "Oh all the people in Egypt, all the businessmen or others, want to employ AUC graduates." [00:41:03] We have to be careful that we don't become a professional school just turning out business graduates, but that while the students are here we broaden their mind and interest and give them a liberal education. That's a challenge to universities throughout the world, it's too easy to make them business schools. That's not what we're trying to do. And I think we've got a ways to go, but I think that this, uh, modernization, if I can say it, of Egypt, is given us the prospect that students will more and more be able to enjoy and profit from the years at AUC far beyond whatever professional specialty they want to end up in. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Is there anything else you would like to add, anything we haven't covered? [00:42:03] Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: Well, as I started to say at one time there, it's been entertaining and broadening of my own horizons. I mean I have been able to look under the tent and into an academic institution and really participate in some of the debates as to, are we doing a good job in economics? Are we doing a good job in technology, or wherever? And how can we do better? A challenge, a challenge, a challenge. Which keeps you young, even if you were born 85 years ago. OK? Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Thank you so much, I appreciate this. 12 Interviewee Lawrence Hyde: OK, alright. Interviewer Stephen Urgola: Thanks. [00:42:44] [End of interview] |
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